ND Miata or Fiat 124? (Trigger warning: contains ND Miata criticism)

"Noah - Now with more boost." (antriebverliebt) 06/07/2016 at 15:36 • Filed to: None

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Just kidding. That question is irrelevant as far as I’m concerned. And Mazda feels the same way, apparently? Because they helped develop the new spider. They’re based off of the same platform and the interiors are nearly identical. Personally, I wouldn’t be caught dead in an ND Miata. I think it’s ugly. Which is subjective, so hear me out before you skip the rest of this post and head straight to the comments section to fanboi me to death. Seriously. Let’s have an actual discussion here please. Input from people who have actually driven the ND would be awesome, especially if you can offer some insight re: how the 124 may differ from the MX-5.

Aesthetics. Ultimately, unless you’re buying something that’s so ugly it’s funny, this category can be an instant deal breaker. No matter how great the car is, if the design doesn’t appeal to you, you probably won’t buy it. Imagine how well the RC-F would sell if it wasn’t ugly as sin (screaming 5.0 V8 versus the M4's hotted up 335 motor). Anyway, back to the MX-5. It has a gawky shark mouth and tail lights that were clearly “inspired” by the F Type. The Japanese are good at that. Not cool.

Once again though, all of this is subjective. Maybe you like the way the MX-5 looks and you’re not put off by the copycat tail lights. Is there any other reason why you should buy a 124 instead of a Miata?

If there is one, it certainly won’t be the interior. They’re practically identical. Which is a great thing, because although I don’t like the ND’s exterior, I do love the interior design. It’s modern and looks very upmarket for the price you pay. Which is also identical to the 124. Both start at around 25K and you can make your way up to 30k if you get the top model.

Now, before I explain why I’d buy a 124, let’s go over its downsides. First of all, there’s the weight. It’s about 100 LBS heavier than the Miata at every trim level. That’s significant when your car weighs less than 3000 lbs. And then there’s that STUPID silver windshield frame. I get that they’re referencing the original spider via that design cue and many others but really? It looks ridiculous. The seventies model looks great that way because it’s a thin, pre-rollover regulations strip of chrome that delicately wraps around the windshield like the frame on a pair of designer glasses.

The new design highlights how bulky modern A pillars have become, which is not a good thing. Hopefully there will be a body color and/or black option. Another thing to wish for is minimal lag on the turbo motor. That’s the last downside I can think of for the 124. The MX-5 is lighter and naturally aspirated, and therefore significantly more responsive. It’s the driver’s car out of the two of them.

That said, I’d still take the 124 over the MX-5. I think it’s an exciting design and I think the turbo could actually be a great thing. Whatever it lacks in responsiveness it will make up for in tuneability. You know damn well that someone like COBB or APR will develop an inexpensive ECU reflash which will bump up the power to your heart’s content. ND drivers will have nothing on even a mildly tuned 124 in a straight line. Sure, the Miata will always be more of a driver’s car because it’s light and naturally aspirated, but if you plan on doing power modifications, the 124 will be your go-to platform. We all know that getting more out of forced induction motors is easier and cheaper.

So, why would Mazda help develop a direct competitor? Is it even a direct competitor? Not necessarily. We don’t know how laggy that turbo motor is and we have no idea who FIAT expects will buy this thing. Maybe it will turn into a fashion statement like the 500, and all of the enthusiasts will still buy the ND? Only time will tell. Hopefully reviews will come out soon. My hunch is that Mazda isn’t worried because the 124 will be angled towards the GT/cruising crowd, and it doesn’t have that priceless MX5 pedigree.

not for canada - australian in disguise > Noah - Now with more boost. 06/07/2016 at 15:42

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124 all the way. If I absolutely HAD to get a 2 seat roadster, that would be my pick. Although I’d go for a Toyobaru or even a Gen Coupe before I’d go for a two seat roadster. Just not practical for most of the year in Canada.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Noah - Now with more boost. 06/07/2016 at 15:43

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124. More attractive and the potential aftermarket tuning is enormous. Bigger turbo, re-flash for moar power, etc.

Van Man, rocks the Man Van > Noah - Now with more boost. 06/07/2016 at 15:45

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I’d take the Fiat. I’m in the minority in saying I think the Mazda looks better and I honestly want to pick the Miata, but it comes down to one deal breaker for me: the LSD. Mazda forces you to get a Club version if you want an LSD, which is priced around $29,000. Meanwhile, my ideal 124 happens to be the Abarth, which actually costs about the same as a Club Miata and comes with more stuff. If the base Miata came with an LSD, I'd be all over that, but it doesn't, so I'll have the Fiat.

Vicente Esteve > Noah - Now with more boost. 06/07/2016 at 15:46

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I adore the ND, but the Fiat has the Abarth sound. I’d go for the Italian on that sole fact.

Invinciblejets > Noah - Now with more boost. 06/07/2016 at 15:47

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Mazda looks better thats my opinion and I’m sticking to it.

But why talk about copy cat design which honestly who cares.... But then say you want a fiat that’s really a Mazda with some tacky kit on it.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > Noah - Now with more boost. 06/07/2016 at 15:48

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I don’t get all the hate.

The ND is a great reboot of the MX-5. It’s modern and more aggressive while adhering to the original principles of simplicity. I like the look.

The 124 Spider is a re-skin with classic roadster lines. It’s more of a throwback design than the forward-looking ND, and it has a more interesting powertrain.

Buy what you want. I personally think they both look great, but if I had to choose one at gunpoint, I’d go for the 124 Spider as well. The interior upgrades and the 1.4T do appeal to me.

Off-topic: Careful with calling the M3 motor a hotted-up 335. The ///M fanboys will have your rear end with details about how every component is special.

Noah - Now with more boost. > not for canada - australian in disguise 06/07/2016 at 15:48

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Yeah I have the same issue with the weather here in New England. I bet I’d regret trying to DD a convertible.

Noah - Now with more boost. > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 06/07/2016 at 15:48

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Bigger turbo would be hilarious. People rave about turbo Miatas so presumably that’d be an epic mod

Noah - Now with more boost. > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever 06/07/2016 at 15:50

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Yeahhh the ND is definitely an improvement over the NC, but not something I lust after in the looks department.

Noah - Now with more boost. > Van Man, rocks the Man Van 06/07/2016 at 15:51

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Wow no LSD in the base model Miatas?? That’s weird. Maybe it’s an upsell thing.

Svend > Noah - Now with more boost. 06/07/2016 at 15:51

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The Fiat without a doubt.

One thing I’d do is put a soft black tint to the lower (reverse and foglights) on the rear and then replace the bulbs for brighter LEDs to counter the effect of the tint.

It would just clear up the rear for me a little.

I know why they have to be there and all. I just feel it detracts from the overall look. If the car was red obviously it probably wouldn’t stand out as much.

Noah - Now with more boost. > Vicente Esteve 06/07/2016 at 15:53

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Didn’t consider that! Agreed, the Italians get a great sound out of that motor. Way better than a 4 cylinder normally sounds. There’s one more point for the Fiat then.

Noah - Now with more boost. > Svend 06/07/2016 at 15:55

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Yeah the tails are slightly questionable, maybe even less aesthetically pleasing than the Miata’s. But at least they’re original.

Van Man, rocks the Man Van > Noah - Now with more boost. 06/07/2016 at 15:56

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Is it just me or does the new 124 look eerily similar to the NC Miata?

Noah - Now with more boost. > Van Man, rocks the Man Van 06/07/2016 at 16:00

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If you posted pics they didn’t show up lol.

Noah - Now with more boost. > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever 06/07/2016 at 16:02

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also re: the 335 comment, the funny thing is... I’m a total BMW fanboi lol. The most disappointing thing about that car is the sound... I have heard E9x 335s with better exhausts. But maybe that’s just a stock vs aftermarket problem

Van Man, rocks the Man Van > Noah - Now with more boost. 06/07/2016 at 16:02

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I’ve been having problems posting pictures with Kinja for a while, but it was just a 124 and NC Miata from the side. Google if you need reference because I think they look extremely similar.

Decay buys too many beaters > Noah - Now with more boost. 06/07/2016 at 16:02

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Neither :(

There is no blue option on either that comes with an LSD.

Noah - Now with more boost. > Van Man, rocks the Man Van 06/07/2016 at 16:04

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That makes a lot of sense actually, I bet they were looking at the NC to some extent while designing the 124

Noah - Now with more boost. > Decay buys too many beaters 06/07/2016 at 16:05

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Don’t tell anyone... but me too lol. I’ll take a CPO Z4 3.0si

Arrivederci > Noah - Now with more boost. 06/07/2016 at 16:06

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I’d probably go with the 124 as well, but not because of its looks. I actually prefer the looks of the ND to the 124 since I see wayyyy too much Dart in the nose of the Fiat.

Maybe it’s just me.

However, the little turbo motor in the 124 would win me over versus the SkyActiv 2.0 in the ND. Tuners have gotten the 500 Abarth up to nearly 200whp and should be able to accomplish the same in the 124. Give me the 124 Abarth, tune, full exhaust, coils and some fat tires and I’ll be ready to to have some fun.

Noah - Now with more boost. > Arrivederci 06/07/2016 at 16:09

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hahaha ok now that you pointed it out... the top portion of the dart grill is eerily similar

Decay buys too many beaters > Noah - Now with more boost. 06/07/2016 at 16:11

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And I’d probably take the absolute cleanest S2000 I could find for the same money.

Textured Soy Protein > Noah - Now with more boost. 06/07/2016 at 16:18

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I think the Miata is much better looking but I would buy the 124 Abarth because of the Miata’s dumb options mix.

On the Miata, the only way to get the sport suspension, LSD and Brembo brakes is on the Club trim, which has cloth seats and not much else in the way of options. The Brembos are stuck in a too-expensive package with BBS wheels that are the exact same size as the regular wheels. A Miata Club with Brembo/BBS package stickers at $33,135.

The 124 Spider Abarth, with its turbo motor, standard heated leather seats, and the optional Brembos (that are a standalone option, not part of a too-expensive package with unnecessary wheels) stickers at $30,685.

Add the Safety & Comfort Collection with auto-dimming interior and exterior mirrors, heated exterior mirrors, alarm, universal garage opener, rear parking sensors, and blind spot and cross path detection (all of which are handy on a convertible with the top up) and the price is still less than the Miata Club Brembo/BBS, at $32,180.

The only way to get a 124 Abarth to be more expensive than the Miata Club Brembo/BBS is to go with the Luxury Collection which pushes the price to $34,680 but that adds on top of the Safety & Comfort Collection, fancier leather seats, adaptive LED headlamps with washers, Bose stereo w/ 1 free year of (worthless IMHO) satellite radio, and navigation.

But that’s a whole lot of shit above and beyond the Miata Club Brembo/BBS, and even the mid-level Abarth trim has way more shit than the Miata Club Brembo/BBS and is nearly a grand cheaper.

Baeromez > Noah - Now with more boost. 06/07/2016 at 16:20

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“ tail lights that were clearly “inspired” by the F Type”

If you’re fucking blind, maybe.

luvMeSome142 & some Lincoln! > Noah - Now with more boost. 06/07/2016 at 16:27

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I’m with you. I think the 124 is the way to go. Although, I saw my first new Miata in the wild yesterday and it looked a lot better than in the pictures.

I have some beef with how Fiat lets you configure the car. You’re right on with the window frame. The big fat silver version doesn’t look good. But the Abarth version gives you a matte grey finish:

I just don’t like that bumper treatment.

If you go with the Classica you get body colored trim:

Aw, I lost the fog lights. And, neither of those options give you the beautiful brown leather seats! For that you have to go with the Lusso, and we’re back to the silver trim:

duurtlang > Noah - Now with more boost. 06/07/2016 at 16:28

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I’d take the Fiat as well, purely based on looks. The Mazda just doesn’t look nearly as good. Which engine I like better is something I need to test in real life. I don’t like the turbo motor in my 2013 Focus much, but that might be due to it being a relatively low powered diesel.

jjhats > Noah - Now with more boost. 06/07/2016 at 16:57

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everyone I know whos bought a mopar swore to never do it again. they make really shitty cars. I think the Miata is beautiful and the 124 ugly so I cant help you but I would never buy a car I found ugly. you should love what you drive

Out, but with a W - has found the answer > Noah - Now with more boost. 06/07/2016 at 17:21

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I prefer the looks of the MX-5, but that’s not the reason why I’d go for it. I’ve driven both the 1.5 and the 2.0, and I actually preferred the lower powered 1.5 because of its higher redline and because it felt more ‘fun’, while the 2.0 felt more like a serious sports car. I’ve also driven the 500 Abarth, and while an absolute riot to drive, it just didn’t feel like the right engine to put into a lightweight roadster.

wkiernan > Noah - Now with more boost. 06/07/2016 at 17:34

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Have you seen the ND in person? I didn’t think it was all that good looking in photos, but at full size in person it looks great. I still haven’t seen the 124 in person, so I can’t really compare them by looks.

All else being equal, as much as I admire the fabulous tradition of Italian sports cars I’d still go with the Hiroshima original, but as Van Man noted, there’s that LSD thing. I have had three Miatas (‘93, ‘99 and ‘04), only the latest one had an LSD, and it feels a lot better, particularly on wet pavement.

OK, before I posted that I went to the FIAT and Mazda web sites. I’d prefer either with 16" wheels, but they aren’t available on either the MX-5 or the 124 if you want an LSD. It appears that you can’t get the 124 with an LSD in any but the Abarth package, which is $28,195 plus $995 dealer’s fee, whereas the MX-5 Club is $26,905 plus $835 dealer’s fee, plus $200 to get it in white. That’s $1250 cheaper, not counting however much they’d want to take that stupid colored stripe off the door. So unless the 124 is as gorgeous in person as Sophia Loren, it’s MX-5 for me.

EDIT: Whoops! Stupid me! For some incomprehensible reason Mazda actually has the 2015 (NC) Miata on their web site! If you look at the price for the ND Club model, it’s $29,435 (MSRP $28,600 plus $835 dealer’s fee), no ugly-ass stripe, and no extra charge for white. Still a bit cheaper than the FIAT.

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > Arrivederci 06/07/2016 at 19:01

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Tune-ability and looks is why I would go for the fiat. I like the looks of the fiat (and actually don't find the dart all that offensive).

Sure, it only has a handful more horsepower off the lot, but a quick reflash is much easier than the NA tuning you’d be looking at with the Miata.

daender > Van Man, rocks the Man Van 06/07/2016 at 20:44

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Yeah, that’s been a thing since the NB2 and NC Miatas. The only way to get the LSD was to go up a trim...which, starting with the NC, meant you have to suffer with the shorter-geared 6-speed instead of the smoother 5-speed gearbox.

Noah - Now with more boost. > wkiernan 06/07/2016 at 22:12

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I

Does that retro broad come with a 124?? She invalidates all other arguments

Noah - Now with more boost. > Textured Soy Protein 06/07/2016 at 22:13

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Would you really be able to resist mods that would make up that 1k price difference tho? I wouldnt lol.

Noah - Now with more boost. > luvMeSome142 & some Lincoln! 06/07/2016 at 22:14

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Body color trim looks great!!! Yesss

Textured Soy Protein > Noah - Now with more boost. 06/08/2016 at 01:38

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No, but if anything being able to mod the turbo motor is another thing in favor of the Fiat. ;)

To me, the Miata Club with Brembo/BBS package only appeals to someone who is all hung up on having the absolute lightest possible version of the car, with the suspension, brakes, LSD and nothing else.

But I think Mazda miscalculated by separating out the performance and luxury options into two totally separate trims, with no ability to combine those features.

Until the ND, the top trims of the Miata always had the performance and luxury features. I actually owned such a car, a ’99 10th Anniversary Edition that had all the (admittedly limited) luxury options for that year, plus the LSD, sport suspension, and factory body kit.

For the purists, there were lower trims that still included the LSD and suspension but not a bunch of other stuff.

Now that Fiat is selling a version with the options mix I like, at more aggressive pricing than Mazda, and with a motor that is easier to tweak, for me, it’s a no-brainer choice.

Not that I’m in the market for a Miata/Fiata at the moment but if I were, I’d be at the Fiat store, not Mazda.

wkiernan > Noah - Now with more boost. 06/08/2016 at 21:44

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You are right. However she only comes with the car if Carlo Ponti is buying the car.